AUDIO
(SOUNDBITE OF THE ROLLING STONES SONG, "WHOLE WIDE WORLD")
SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
I have always wanted to say this. Ladies and gentlemen, The Rolling Stones.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WHOLE WIDE WORLD")
THE ROLLING STONES: (Singing) When the whole wide world's against you, and that's got you on the run, and you think the party is over, but it's only just, only just begun.
SIMON: Wow, the consummate and classic rock band - Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Ronnie Wood - with "Hackney Diamonds," first album of original material in 18 years and their first since the death of their great drummer Charlie Watts in 2021, though the drummer does appear on a couple of tracks. Keith Richards, one of the greatest guitarists in history, joins us now. Thanks so much for being with us.
KEITH RICHARDS: Hey, Scott. Hey. Thanks for the buildup, man (laughter). Yeah, it's a pleasure to be with you. It's a pleasure of a new record to talk about, you know?
SIMON: Tell me how this comes about after, you know, a number of years.
RICHARDS: I wish I could explain the ins and outs. Obviously, we record all the time. And last year, we were on the road, and Mick looked at me - look out. He's got something to say. Look. We've got to blitz a record here. We got to, like, push it through and say, here we are. Let's go. So, yeah, OK, Mick, let's go for it. And I'm still actually listening back to myself now saying, I don't believe we cut a record that quick, you know? But it was a great feeling. And the thing coming out of it is very good, you know, for me, you know?
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "LIVE BY THE SWORD")
THE ROLLING STONES: One, two, three.
SIMON: We should explain, hackney diamonds is a British phrase, right? For what?
RICHARDS: Oh, hackney diamonds is like, you know, a really - you know, a good Saturday night that went bad (laughter). So it's what's left on Sunday morning. It's broken glass and stuff. That's basically it, you know?
SIMON: You never look at each other and say, you know, we really could just put our feet up and sit under the sun in Monaco or something?
RICHARDS: Hey, we can put our feet up for a little bit. But, you know, it just - you're into this thing for all the way, really.
SIMON: Yeah.
RICHARDS: I mean, this is what we do. This is what we love. And I got to see this Rolling Stones through.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "LIVE BY THE SWORD")
THE ROLLING STONES: (Singing) I'm going to treat you right. I'm going to treat you good.
SIMON: What was it like to - well, to not work with Charlie Watts after all this time?
RICHARDS: As part of The Stones, it was difficult - made much, much easier by Mr. Watts himself, who had always recommended Steve Jordan. He'd say, if anything happens and blah, blah, blah, Steve Jordan's the man. That first advice came many years ago to me, and that caused me to work with the X-Pensive Winos with Steve Jordan. So I've been working with Steve Jordan for almost 30, 40 years.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HONKY TONK WOMEN")
THE ROLLING STONES: (Singing) 'Cause I just can't seem to drink you off my mind. It's the honky tonk women.
RICHARDS: It was a natural fold-in for the events and - but at the same time, I do know that it is with Charlie's blessing, which, like, makes us all a lot happy, you know?
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MESS IT UP")
THE ROLLING STONES: C'mon.
SIMON: This song is pretty blunt about some of the mistakes we can make in our life. Let's listen and ask you to talk on "Mess It Up."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MESS IT UP")
THE ROLLING STONES: (Singing) You shared my photos with all your friends. Yеah, you put them out there. Well, it don't make no sense. Oh, I said I'm sorry. I know it ended bad. You came to the right place, baby, at the wrong time. It's kind of sad. You think I'll mess it up, mess it up, mess it up all for you - all for you, yeah.
SIMON: So where's this song come from, Mr. Richards?
RICHARDS: Hey, it's part of life, you know, because he laid this one on me. It was already done - cooked and fried, you know? I just added my stuff in and put it there. But at the same time, I understand what you mean. And I'm sure that, you know, if you ask Mick, you might get a better explanation than from me (laughter).
SIMON: Well, he's welcome any time, but you're the guy we have here now.
RICHARDS: I know.
SIMON: I've never heard this story from you. You went to grade school with Mick Jagger?
RICHARDS: Oh, yeah. Mick and I were in school together from about the age of 5 until 10. So we knew each other in that kind of period, you know?
SIMON: I'm assuming you didn't play any music together then?
RICHARDS: No. Not then, no. We used to play around together. We knew each other well. I mean, we were, like, pretty good friends from that age. Mick was very, very bright, and I was very dumb. So Mick went into grammar schools, and I went to a technical school. I needed to learn a few things. And then we remet during that period just after school and found out that we, surprisingly enough, you know, not only knew each other but that we both loved the same music and were like, you know, both passionate about it. And that's really how we, you know, we remet. And that's The Stones, baby. That's it.
SIMON: Because what I've read and heard over the years is that you met on a train platform, and one of you was carrying a Chess Records album?
RICHARDS: Almost right. It so happened that we used to take the same train. I was going to art school, and Mick was going to the London School of Economics. Do you believe this?
SIMON: Yes, of course. You said he was smart.
RICHARDS: Yeah, you know, but this is the truth. And it somehow happened that we suddenly got into the same carriage together. And I looked what he was carrying, which was two albums. And one was "The Best Of Muddy Waters."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ROLLIN' STONE")
MUDDY WATERS: (Singing) I got a boy child's comin'. Gonna be, he's gonna be a rolling stone. Sure enough, he's a rolling stone.
RICHARDS: And the other was "Rockin At The Hops" by Chuck Berry. Now, I had never seen anybody possessing such treasures in my life, man, because these were, you know, Chess Records out of Chicago.
SIMON: And what was it about that music? 'Cause it's - the fact it makes an appearance on this album, too.
RICHARDS: It was real. At our age, being, like, war babies and everything, and I guess it was - there was no showbiz about it. It was the stuff. And suddenly, you felt that you were listening to something that was rather deeper than most people were listening to. And the blues was - is about as deep as you can get.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ROLLING STONE BLUES")
THE ROLLING STONES: (Singing) Well, I wish I was a catfish swimming in the deep blue sea.
RICHARDS: Actually, we were in an apartment, and we were - we had our first gig. One of us was on the phone - I think it was Brian Jones - he was on the phone saying, we want to play some advert and say, we are playing in this place so and so. And they said, what do you call your name? Oh, God, we haven't got a name. And on the floor was the same album. And on the back, the first track was "Rolling Stone Blues."
SIMON: Oh, my God.
RICHARDS: Phone call's costing money. We're The Rolling Stones (laughter).
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ROLLING STONE BLUES")
THE ROLLING STONES: (Singing) Well, my mother told my father, just before I, I was born. She said, got a boy child comin'. It's gonna be, gonna be a rolling stone. It's gonna be a rolling stone.
SIMON: I covered Muddy Waters' funeral, by the way.
RICHARDS: You did?
SIMON: Yeah. He liked - he loved you, you know.
RICHARDS: Oh, I know that. I did once fall asleep at Muddy's house and woke up with howling wolves. Don't ask me how. I don't know.
SIMON: OK. Do you dream music?
RICHARDS: No, except that I do have to say with "Satisfaction..."
SIMON: Yeah.
(SOUNDBITE OF THE ROLLING STONES SONG, "(I CAN'T GET NO) SATIFACTION")
RICHARDS: I had - this got - it was a new thing then - the cassette player. I put it beside the bed. I did - I mean, I fell asleep, as I did occasionally. And when I woke up in the morning, I realized that the tape had run from the beginning to the end. I had obviously - I had woken up in the middle of the night, pushed the buttons and just played that phrase and - I can't get no satisfaction, da-da, da-da-da. And then I - and the rest of it - the tape - is me snoring.
SIMON: (Laughter).
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "(I CAN'T GET NO) SATISFACTION")
THE ROLLING STONES: (Singing) I can't get no...
SIMON: You still enjoy performing, it sounds like.
RICHARDS: Yeah, man. I love it. That's what I do. It's - keeps me on my toes and keeps my fingers moving. And I'm still finding different ways of playing things in the way - you know, it's a learning process, even though you're getting to be around 80. You know, believe me. It don't stop (laughter).
SIMON: Can those of us on the outside imagine what it's like to be Keith Richards in The Rolling Stones?
RICHARDS: No. I got no idea what they could imagine. I am who I am. And I got my folks, and I've still got my band, man, you know? I got a band.
SIMON: Yeah. So there's another album in the pipeline?
RICHARDS: Whoa. You're really pushing (laughter). There's plenty more stuff left over from "Hackney Diamonds" to work on. There'll always be another one until we drop.
(SOUNDBITE OF THE ROLLING STONES SONG, "ANGRY")
SIMON: Keith Richards. The new Rolling Stone album "Hackney Diamonds." Thank you so much for being with us.
RICHARDS: Thank you, Scott. Nice to talk to you, man.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ANGRY")
THE ROLLING STONES: (Singing) Angry.
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